The Apostle John recorded about the New Jerusalem, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [Revelation 21:14], The Apostles are 12 faithful eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus during His entire earthly ministry, and Matthias is the 12th. did I miss something? Extremely zealous follower of Judaism (Php 3:5-6). Tobit is a good reference In the Babylonian Talmud, Zevahim 97b and 100b there are statements given in the name of Rabbi Akiva that in the case of an unclaimed body, if no one is attending to it, the responsibility for the buriasl of this corpse falls on this person, who must do it despite any obstacles, regardless if one is a High Priest or Nazirite, neither of whom are allowed to become tamei, ritually impure. Your name never appears in the Bible after your appointment as the 12th Apostle in Acts 1. 1. I am not sure you can compare Pauls education to a modern one. Some of its magic, some its tragic, but Ive had a good life along the way. -Jimmy Buffett. when did congress pass the noahide laws; what is monzo building society account? Sure im interested in dialgoue, however, if youre going to use replacement theology then were going to be at odds because im going to refute with what the bible actually says. Judas obviously didnt stand by Jesus in his trial, as the whole world knows. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. There is so much theological supposing these days! He wrote the book on NT theology, and developed a missionary strategy that evangelized the western Roman empireso maybe three or four degrees at least. STEP 6) LOOP- REPEAT steps 1 through 5, until your dance partner gives up, the audience gets bored, or the music stops. Why ignore the words of our Lord God Jesus Christ, Son of Yahweh the Most High God of Israel, who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets? His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). Paul was probably making reference to some of the Hebrew Scriptures, quite likely including the Law and the Prophets. As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status But it begs the question Why would early Christians claim Rabban as one of their own? Yes I agree its a commandment given by Jesus, its not optional, and it applies to us today. I am not sure we can know, but Aramaic seems likely, although Scripture would be studied in Hebrew. Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) Who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy? I have come to save the day! The Middle East is very unstable. Phillip, thank you. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. [erase erase erase], Actually, the same is true for you Thaddaeus, after you were appointed. . My view is very similar to the traditional Orthodox view of the texts of Scripture for almost 2000 years. I didnt know everything 7 years ago either but I have grown and learned new things about God and His Word in the past 7 years, as is normal for a growing believer. In reality youd be considered a Judaizer ( an no its not what Christians think it is because that definition is clearly wrong) and thrown out of the synagogues. I dont know of a single church that simply teaches the Bible simply and preaches the whole counsel of God, including Pauls sins and mistakes. There once was a phony named Paul who lied about God he had gall. at the feet of Gamaliel"). You said that your QUOTE Quran is incorruptible. Thats like many Christians saying the Bible is inerrant. Muhammad is to Muslims as Paul is to most Christians as Mary is to most Catholics an idol that they worship, practically speaking. Mosley is actually studied under Flusser. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. ), was the portable earthly dwelling place of Yahweh (the God of Israel) used by the Israelites from the. Responding to a question from Peter, Jesus said to them: you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. [Matthew 19:28]. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). Contemporary Jewish records continue to list him first among the Sanhedrin.[24]. :the character and position of his father; his own early training in a Grecian city; and his subsequent training under Gamaliel at Jerusalem. To teach the bible, it is mandatory to teach from a Pharisaic background. I also was struck by the context in Pauls frequent use of athletic analogies. . Considering the writing of the Mishnah and Talumd are collection of previous works from various Yeshivas (ie before the New Testament) clearly shows you have no idea what youre talking about in regards to Judaism and how the text was culminated. How can we account for this violent reaction in a man trained by Gamaliel?, As a devout young Jewish man who was taught by quite a peaceful, que sera sera, member of the Sanhedrin, it is somewhat surprising that Paul (Saul at the time) would be one to persecute Jewish Christians so vehemently. That is OK, if it is not handy then I can look it up myself. The Clementine Literature suggested that he maintained secrecy about the conversion and continued to be a member of the Sanhedrin for the purpose of covertly assisting his fellow Christians. This applies to the Pharisee sect. Makes sense, but I could not prove this. Gamaliel . In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. In humbelness if heart, I have made this contribution. Helpful. Yes the Holy Spirit guided him in his writings, but part of being human is how we are shaped from our teachers and mentors. The followers of Yeshua and Shaul were not called Christians. We can now understand as they did then, what God wills, what Christ said, and His ambassadors taught. The only think I have examined from him (Yeshua: A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church) is occasionally accurate, but often wildly wrong. and as long as the food was not sacrificed to idols and was kosher you could eat with gentiles. In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people! But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. Who am I to challenge hundreds years of false man-made tradition, like Jesus, Martin Luther, Columbus, Copernicus and Galileo? Why are you waiting, be of those who bow to Gods Will if you know that the Bible has lies in it and is corrupt, you must believe that a true religion exists in the world and isnt a secluded secret for the few who know! My problem is with your assumption that just because Paul differs from Gamaliel makes him a radical Shammaite Pharisee. Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. As a teen, his family sent him to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel, the most prestigious Jewish teacher of that time, similar to a Harvard education today. Go and sin no more said Jesus, Dont relive that history. Peter doesnt point to himself, or his own words, or all Scripture or The Bible, Peter doesnt claim his own words are the word of God, and he doesnt claim that he doesnt need a second witness. Belivers in Yeshua adhered to Lev, 23 and worshipped on the true shabbat. Wow, theyre dropping like flies. His seeds are seeds of oppression and bondage. You are Simon son of John said Jesus, without elaboration. On example: I think that it is likely he on his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior to conversion. You seem to want to impose your views of the modern church on ancient house churches. Thanks also for your series on New Perspectives. Social Science. we only see him make use of those things POST conversion, this is true enough, but we do not really have a very large database of material to assess Pauls Hellenistic worldview prior to his conversion. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. Second, Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, so we can get an approximate early date for Pauls education. On analogy to Supreme Court Justices dissenting in limited and specific cases (anomolies) as a dissenting minority against a majority with whom the dissent would normally agree? Although he was born in Tarsus in Cilicia, Paul spent a considerable amount of time in Jerusalem under the tutelage of Gamaliel in the strict manner of the law of the Jews (Acts 22:3). I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. Very much the contrary. Similarly,When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Upgrade to remove ads. These would be lofty words for a law abiding Pharisee to be speaking and Paul obviously saw Christ as the laws fulfillment. He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness. In Gospel of John chapter 10, the Apostle John records many words of Jesus, including: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me., I recommend reading the whole chapter (10), and listening to the voice of Jesus first (rather than the voice of a stranger like Paul first. I guess I had better plan ahead, and save a slot for the last Pope, Francis. Shaul and Yehusa were both Jews who practiced Judaism, worshiped in synagogues, at the temple and were part of Jewish society and culture. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. what is your source for that requirement? Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Numbers 7:59 chapter context similar meaning "And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur." Gamaliel Paul, in a speech to the Jews, tried to influence them by stating that he had been a student of Gamaliel ("I am a Jew, . But the testimonies of the era indicate he would have become a ward and trainee of Gamaliel in the age range of 10-14. The later evidence of the Mishnah implies an Aramaic commentary on the Hebrew Bible, but that dates to AD 250. ), STEP 5) Paul said; I do not understand what I do. For example, Polhill says, The most interesting ruling preserved from Rabban Gamaliel was his insistence that a woman had the right to remarry upon the testimony of a single witness that her husband had died. 3) the apostle Paul prides himself on having sat at the feet of Gamaliel. . . For instance, Shammai believed the halachot they created that gentiles could never be saved or be in covenant and to eat with them was idolatry. References to Paul's ancestry and youth. This is a good point, although I am not sure that the tradition is totally reliable. In Matthew 22 and Mark 12, Jesus identified two commandments, saying one of them is the first and greatest most important one. Sages of the time didn't have formal recognition or title. Paul has a track record in Scripture of boasting, exaggerating, and stretching the truth to promote himself and make himself appear more important than he really was. The revelation of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12), most probably in Arabia. He comes back to nonviolence and tolerance in his ministry (how he handles the riots and the scourgings). But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. (Eph. Exactly what Issa (p) al Masih said NOT TO! therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. If Christianity is the church as it is practiced in 2018 then you are correct, that is not present in the book of Acts. Paul adhering to the Feast of Pentacost (Acts 20:16). Calling him a good man (Acts 11:24), a prophet and teacher (13:1), an apostle (14:14) and one through whom God worked miracles (15:12), Acts loads him with accolades. Cool ! It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. So no there was zero Christianity in the book of Acts. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! Youre putting your western views on a Hebraic book that is of near eastern culture. The will of God is plainly revealed, showing all that man is to do, to be, to suffer, and enjoy. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. What Jesus clearly and specifically said is also superior and more important than your opinions about what you think Jesus meant or implied, but didnt say elsewhere. Its encouraging that God can use imperfect messengers like them, because it proves He can also use an imperfect man like me to advance His kingdom, when I humble myself, repent, and obey His commands. There were at least 2 elements of Paul's training. ." b. What is the meaning of Tentmaker? Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Especially to a yeshiva student studying to be a Chazzan. Taken directly from Talmud. I think there is some sort of progression, however, in Pauls theology. We have no evidence that I know of to describe his attitude toward those things prior to his Damascus Road and Arabia experiences. I dont think breakthrough in our faith randomly happens. The Lord Our God is ONE God worship HIM.. Maase Hatorah -works of the law 2. George Clinton? maybe not. So Law, Prophets, scripture is what it is divided into. I. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. We are painters, and we paint. I need to refine that. When Hillel died, his son Simeon assumed his position, but Simeon died shortly after he took office. Paul wrote 29 chapters to this church that he founded and then left after 18 months, and also we have Lukes biographical account starting in Acts 18:1. Why is this a strange idea? I know! Here are 3 examples. Paint the house first, and Ill stay in the garage until youre done. This has already been proven many times over that James the Just was a Nasi, the Nazarites had a Sanhedrin, and per Euseibus the first bishops of the church were Hebrews who taught Torah along with the teachings of Yeshua and you didnt have a gentile bishop until Mark. Yahweh is the path to freedom, not Paul. Just because Paul disagreed with Gamaliel on one tiny aspect hes therefore a from the school Shammi? Did paul study under gamaliel? b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. He fathered Simeon ben Gamliel, who was named for Gamaliel's father, and a daughter, who married a priest named Simon ben Nathanael. The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern Pauls: traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed apostles like Paul, who find it profitable to be like Paul rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah. Is Paul a Christian Pharisee who believes in Jesus? While he agrees with Gamaliel, Paul wants to protect that which he loves. Do you have a reference handy mentioning Gamaliel in the Clementine lit? Hes an Liberal heretic !!! If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. ), In essence, it is also the same principle as what Eve did in the Garden of Eden, forgetting about the Tree of Life, which is the first tree in the middle of the Garden, and instead referring to the second tree as the tree that is in the middle of the garden. [Genesis 3:3 & 2:9 2:17, 3:24], Kind of like the Pharisees with Jesus, who were pushing the false idea that we can consider ONE commandment in the Law, alone in isolation, to be the greatest commandment in the Law., Or like today, false teachers in the Chrislam Purpose Driven Seeker Sensitive Emergent Liberal Ecumenical New Age world church movement pushing the false idea that the ONE RULE is Loving God and Neighbor together.. Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. Second, Tarsus also exposed Paul to different cultures. Nave's Topical Index. There is no conservative or liberal spectrum regarding Judaism or the 32 sects of Judaism during the time of Yeshua. By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. It is the drastic nature of the difference in his life after he surrenders to Jesus that testifies to the Power and Truth of who Christ is, as well as to the wonder of the great mystery that is later revealed to Paul! At the Last Supper, Jesus said to His Apostles: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. But, Once an idea has been accepted by your subconscious, it remains there and it governs your behavior until it is replaced or changed. [ as a pastor named Bishop Dale C. Bronner observed in one of his sermons]. Mark could be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the other Apostles. Matthias was qualified, appointed, and later recognized as part of The Twelve. Acts 22:3. You can hover over the pic and it will say that (or at least it did for me in Firefox). Er was the first person God killed for being wicked ( Gen 38:7 ). Christians threatened his view and interpretation of the law until his conversion in Acts 9. Provocative. But until 1956 he was Saint Gamaliel according to the Catholic Churchs Roman Martyrology. Jesus never calls us out For what we used to be. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). Maybe, from what I have seen of him he does not go to great lengths on anything. He states not only is he a Pharisee, but where he studied and what tribe he is from. This is what happens when you dont study near eastern culture and context before reading scripture. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. ), STEP 3) Paul said; All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [Romans 3:23] (Response- Again the same question; What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? The Lord Our God is ONE God Greatest Commandment according to the Messiah (p). "From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land." Who was Paul's mentor in his study of Judaism? I dont think that he is a Christian pharisee however, I believe that he just holds close to the teachings that he received for over half of his life before his conversion. When the homeowner returned in the evening, he was furious. This is more accurate, important, and authoritative than personal letters written by Paul the Pharisee, who never knew Jesus personally, had no part in His ministry, and had no eyewitness testimony. Since Paul clearly gives his yeshiva and his lineage, it shows he wasnt a Christian before and after Damascus. By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. This is a question of fact about the content of the text in the 66 Books of our Bible. Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. This passion is evident in his active persecution of those he saw as going against what the Torah taught about the Messiah. This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. For example, when Jesus was speaking about a new command I give you, Jesus didnt say THE new commandment, or the FIRST commandment, or the MOST IMPORTANT commandment, or the ONE commandment, or the GREATEST commandment, or ONE RULE. Similar to my discussion with Sam above, the evidence for Pauls athletic metaphors is late, maybe 20 years after conversion. Perhaps in a synagogue, either Hebrew or Hellenistic? The false teaching about one rule is the false teaching of the Pharisees of Pauls day, and Paul the Pharisee was pushing this false teaching. It is best to study what the schools of Judaism taught during that era of that temple. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. He states that if the apostolic movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not form God then it cannot succeed. According to Photius, he was baptized by Saint Peter and Saint John, together with his son and Nicodemus. a. Acts 6:9 But resistance arose from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and men from the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. Only 3 of these men wrote Scripture in the Bible Matthew, John and Peter. He sent Shaul to the gentiles to teach his message and he is a Pharisee. God has not changed, and neither has the text of The Bible. All Jews were Hellenized to some extent, perhaps Paul made more use of Hellenisitic categories after the Damascus Road, but as a citizen of Tarsus it is impossible for him to be completely and solely Jewish in his thinking. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. Were in a recession, the economy is terrible, jobs are scarce, immorality is rampant, and in many ways the country is falling apart. Is it a commentary on the book of Acts in blog form? Are the lines differentiating Gamaliel/Hillel from Shammaite Pharisees sufficiently filled out by robust bodies of exhaustive casuistry? I am one of those who obey Gods commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. [Revelation 12:17] No Im not perfect without sin, and No I dont know everything now. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than THESE. [Mark 12:28-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18], #2 an expert in the law, tested him [Jesus] with this question: Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?, Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. God led Paul to write what what was necessary to be included in scripture, but at the same time God does not use men as mindless puppets, but he uses our personalities, ideas, and who we are to accomplish what he wants. / 2 Tim. Stop pitying yourself, you are not being persecuted. Love, Love, Love. (In other words, the second commandment, the love of man, without the love of God. So being an Apostle of Jesus involves being sent by Jesus, yes. He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. How long did the Apostle Paul prepare for ministry? FWIW, the name is spelled Ron Moseley. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like Definition of 'epistle', 5 Common Denominators of an Epistle, T/F - Christ is a relationship not a religion and more. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. About God he had gall Matthew 22 and Mark 12, Jesus said his. Of 2 Timothy cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching modern one passion evident. Apostle how long did paul study under gamaliel prides himself on having sat at the earliest on his to! 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